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    • Negative Reputation   08/03/19

      We've heard you loud and clear - negative reputation is back. Remember that it's still against the rules to complain about being downvoted - if you think someone's mass-downvoting posts or otherwise abusing the reputation system, DM a mod and we will take care of it.

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105 posts in this topic

Posted

Okay but I don't think that getting rid of downvotes will stop the mob mentality some threads have, I've seen other gossip sites out there that don't have a voting system like PULL does and the mob mentality is just as bad, I feel like people are really only actively talking about it on here.I think it's just some sort of an inevitablity that a bunch of strangers gossiping about other strangers online will probably develop a hive mind of some sorts and if you just simply disagree with the hive mind you're branded as a WK and the whole thread goes off on eachother because heaven forbid you have an opinion. 

Also, I'm not trying to attack anyone here, but I do feel like it's mostly the users who break rules or come in shoving their hate boners down everyone's throats that complain about getting downvoted. Downvotes literally do jack shit. Can't we just report the people derailing over votes like we used to? Or would that create too much stress for the mods? :alpacacrush:

IDK just throwing my thoughts out there. 

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Posted

If its possible, I'd wanna see the number of upvotes and the number of downvotes separately. I feel like that would help when posts are getting bombed with downvotes from WKs or whoever, we can also see if there were any upvotes. The combined reputation would just show as 0 if an equal number of people upvoted and downvoted and I don't see how that accurately represents the opinion of the users on the thread.

Actually I think this is a great idea. If that makes sense, it's more about the red of the downvotes alone that unconsciously makes you think the post contains unreliable information. I mean I can imagine even threads like this turning into some sort of downvoting battlefield, you just can't escape that infamous gang mentality apparently...

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Posted

I never liked the downvoting system and I'm back in the forum just because it has been removed. I've never downvoted someone, if I had something to say I bluntly communicated my disagree. There's already the ignore button and arguing is not allowed in the forum, so why adding the downvote?

Being downvoted makes me feel bad and inadequate in a place I thought we could dicuss gossip smoothly. I prefer to be addressed with opinions.

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Posted

Going to throw in my oh-so controversial two cents on this. I'm glad the downvote button is disabled for now, but if it gets brought back I wouldn't be mad about it. 

When users abuse the downvote button, it doesn't become an option to disagree with what someone says or flag down misinformation, it becomes a tool to dogpile users into changing their opinion or silencing them once they hit the red. I've seen users who have left PULL because they hit -30 or more on a single post and feel as though they aren't wanted here or are chased off because their rep dips below 0. Maybe we focus too much on reputation as whole, but it doesn't negate the issue that the downvote button is more abused than any other function because there's no limit to how many times you can use it in a day. 

If it does get brought back:

  • Separate the rep count on a post to show downvotes and upvotes instead of a single counter
  • Hide the downvote counter as soon as it reaches a certain amount to avoid mobbing
  • Put a limit on it the same way upvotes have limits 
  • To prevent trolls from going on downvote sprees, maybe change it so that only accounts in good standing can use it or limit it to accounts that are over a week old? Most would give up trying after the first day because all they'd want to do is cause as much damage as quickly as possible then leave.

Or go the facebook route and use emoji reactions 

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Posted (edited)

I thought the 25 reps/day limit already included both upvotes and downvotes? 

Iirc there's been situations when I disagreed with someone, but later came across a post I really wanted to upvote but couldn't as I've already reached my limit, so I just retracted my previous downvote, and I was able to upvote the other post just fine

@Rhea would you mind clarifying this?

Edited by Rocking Horse Fly
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Posted

If people are worried about downvoting being abused maybe implement a limit like others suggested. Or even if a user is consistently downvoting EVERYTHING maybe have it flag on the system to check for a spam/bot/whiteknight? Idk it's probably not possible but itd be cool

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Posted

lmao just got my first dislikes. At least it was for something dumb i said. Totally deserve it

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Posted

Ngl, I'm super glad downvotes are back.
Like someone said a few solid pages ago, I'd much rather downvote something idiotic like disinformation from a wk, outright lies or just a big ass disagreement post rather than have to reply to everything when it might actually not really add anything to the threads and derail it (which is something I don't like, I mainly rely on lurking and vote distributing rather than quoting others for said reason).

Plus it's quite nice if, say hypothetically, someone writes disinformation that has been proven a lie before. If it has a neutral feedback ( re:0 ), someone who is lurking or new to the subject might take it as true if no one engages with it... on the other hand, a post with say -10 votes will have a different impact on those reading it for it seems to be less truthful or reliable.

I could add more examples where I think visible downvoting helps but then it'd be very long and re-reading what I wrote, my english is not working the best today so, to avoid more gibberish, just gonna reiterate I'm glad these are back, thank you and pleasegimmemorevotingallowanceadaytytyty.

P.S: Anything can be user abused, virtually -any- thing... Like PeppermintBark said, if something or someone is under suspicions, just flag it since, if it's a wk it will be good to have him noticed by the mods; otherwise, if it might be an abuse, the user can be noted (or maybe you just say shit that people don't agree with and get a reality check, idk LOL).

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Posted

Im glad that downvotes are back but rules about whats not allowed for downvoting needs to be put in PULL Rules. I see mods and users have differing views of whats isnt allowed with downvotes. 

A lot of the people who asked for downvoting back said they want it to be able to disagree easily, but recently Rhea made a post saying people cant use it for just disliking other opinions (its out of context of the thread issue but rules are rules no matter where enforced). And a few pages back in this Yuuna said its for if you dislike an opinion but dont want to argue.

Currently the rules just say no downvoting abuse (i guess wk dv sprees and "dogpiling") and no downvoting just because you dislike the *person*, not because "bad post"etc. If the up button is for i agree/i like this post i have no idea why the down is something thats not the opposite.

Following that line I dont see why it shouldnt be allowed for a lot of people to dislike a post. Some posts are so blase, or the same opinion, or is just 2 sentences or whatever its like its barely worth attention. Some posts are more articulate or have more material to disagree with) and catch more eyes. Some threads just get more traffic. How is "dogpiling" different from when a user makes a post that boils down to "here is why your post is shit"  or "here is a mean/shitty joke" and the user gets a lot of upvotes? Are we going to complain about that next?

Basically too much policing of a system as basic as up and down is too difficult not to get contradictory with. Keep it simple. Up = i like/agree with this post for whatever reason Down = i dislike/disagree with this post for whatever reason. 

 Its not a pressure to agree or disagree. You do or you dont. This split idea of what a downvote contributes to the butthurt feelings when someone is downvoted. And honestly its almost funny that people getting downvotes hurt feelings so much when people tell flakes to get off the internet and take breaks if they cant handle negative feedback. 

Personally I mostly use downvotes for disagrees so id find the system rather useless if its not allowed... But i dont even know if its not allowed right now.

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Posted

It's difficult to draw the line, I agree with you. Typically it's not a problem if someone gets a downvote or two for having an unpopular opinion, but in the Mikan thread it got to a point where any negative post would just be downvoted into the negatives, and that leads to an echo chamber. Again, downvoting over a disagreement isn't a problem when opinions are more varied, but when it turns into silencing other users, that's when it becomes an issue. We don't want the reputation system to merely be a reflection of whether or not the majority of PULL shares a user's opinion. That's a popularity contest. 

 

And a few pages back in this Yuuna said its for if you dislike an opinion but dont want to argue.

Yuuna is not a mod anymore. 

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Posted

It's difficult to draw the line, I agree with you. Typically it's not a problem if someone gets a downvote or two for having an unpopular opinion, but in the Mikan thread it got to a point where any negative post would just be downvoted into the negatives, and that leads to an echo chamber. Again, downvoting over a disagreement isn't a problem when opinions are more varied, but when it turns into silencing other users, that's when it becomes an issue. We don't want the reputation system to merely be a reflection of whether or not the majority of PULL shares a user's opinion. That's a popularity contest. 

 

Yuuna is not a mod anymore. 

Yeah that was a specific problem with the Mikan thread (and the Kenna thread and probably other popular threads) but I still think the PULL Rules need clarification about downvoting. I can see how it would be difficult to work with in big threads and I dont necessarily disagree with mod decisions, but since downvoting has become such an issue the rules need an update! Then when issues arise we can directly quote the rules and avoid derailment. 

In the future there will be people downvoted into oblivion, but when does a certain amount of downvotes equate to silencing and when are threadgoers justified? Of course it depends on the thread but even if you explain it here I think it needs to be addressed in the rules somehow. 

 

Yuuna was a mod until relatively recently and that post was some months ago. I dont know what every mod thinks, but I found this to be memorable example of difference in opinion of what downvoting is.

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Posted

I think there needs to be some examples of unpopular opinion vs. silencing and what situations would be considered "mobbing" or just disagreement.

Pretend I went into a snowflake thread. If I went and said:

"X has ugly hair" 

or

"X is a scummy person because..." 

And get downvoted to oblivion for both, what would be considered mobbing and what would be justified? Both are opinions, but one doesn't add to the thread while the other has some kind of explanation that could encourage a conversation.

This doesn't really cover nitpicking or wking or other very specific situations, but it's something I've seen in the Venus/Mikan/Kenna/etc threads where most users only say positive things, but anything leaning towards an unpopular opinion is mobbed because it's against the status quo. Then it becomes a circlejerk for the snowflake where you're not allowed to say anything negative ever unless you want your rep to suffer. This has happened where even with substantial evidence of snowflakery for an online personality, the poster gets downvoted because users think otherwise that there is nothing wrong but the OP is in the wrong. Not to toot my own horn, but it's happened to me when I started the Sakimi thread and both I and some other users got mobbed across pages because more people were supporting her than being against her. 

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Posted

I definitely feel there needs to be a whole thread dedicated to downvoting and white knighting so people can get a clearer picture of what not to abuse the system for and what being a white knight actually entails. because it baffles me that some people don't know they are being a white knight and when ti is pointed out to them they don't see anything wrong with it. I think if there was a clear definition of what PULL thinks downvoting and white knighting mean to the site then I think more people might be able to get it. 

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Posted

I think it’s weird that people wanted a voting a system and took to it so fast. I feel that *is* Reddit’s current downfall to being an exclusive site that definitely developed a “hive mindset.” I feel like any type of voting system plants the seed of people associating themselves to a particular mindset and it halts any development for existing and new users to bring up any topics that have a different perspective or mentality. 

I know getting upvotes feels “good” but downvoted, whether they’re earned or not, has detrimental effects on a site’s community. 

Just my unwarranted 2 cents. 

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Posted

 

Or go the facebook route and use emoji reactions 

 

thats an interesting idea haha, but I wonder if it would work well on this site

 

People who are upset about getting downvoted need to grow some thicker skin, even if your opinion isn't a popular one, that doesn't mean everyone disagrees or that they hate you. Take a step back and consider why someone might have downvoted (does it contribute something to the discussion? is it a statement based off of facts? was it vulgar?) Also, consider the site that we are on. This is a website that serves as a discussion platform for personalities who are generally toxic or snowflakey and if you act that way as well, then you are no better than the people being discussed here.

That goes for mob downvoters as well, have some self-awareness for goodness sake. We condemn people for blindly following some of these personalities yet so many people will behave the same way here. Think about where you are (a gossip site) and what you're doing (discussing toxic/snowflakey people) before you upvote or downvote a post. I'm a regular in the Kenna thread and seeing her stuff has helped me be more aware of my actions and how they affect others and myself. I would hope others are here to learn and grow through discussion as well.

I don't think removing downvotes is the solution, I think downvotes can show readers if a post doesn't have relevant or accurate information. It shouldn't be that hard to think about what posts are really worthy of any type of reputation, but I agree that some general guidelines for giving reputation should be added to the rules if it really is a problem.

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