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698 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

To me, PDP's apologies and explanations are a bit hollow. That's not a fact, just how I see it. Like when he accidentally promoted an alt-right YouTube channel, was confronted with that fact, and his response was (and I'm paraphrasing) "well, obviously I wouldn't have promoted it if I knew what he was making, I've only watched one video." He wanted to promote smaller channels in a Top 10 list, something you can expect some research from. At least I would. At least go to the guy's channel and read a title or two. Either he knew what he was promoting and brushed it off when there was backlash, or he's genuinely just that lazy.

He apologizes for putting "death to all jews" on a sign, but puts nazi imagery (even doing a nazi salute and bowing over a swastika while the Nazi Party anthem plays as a "summoning ritual") as some sort of comment on how silly it is that anyone would think he's a nazi. In my opinion joking about nazism and anti-semitism in this fashion is kind of awful on its own. And apparently he recently, suddenly, completely unexpectedly after some horrific events says "nazi jokes aren't that funny anymore". Almost as if he realizes he can't get away with this kinda stuff much longer when his name is entangled with the likes of islamophobes and white supremacists.

Edited by SimpleDimples
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To me, PDP's apologies and explanations are a bit hollow. That's not a fact, just how I see it. Like when he accidentally promoted an alt-right YouTube channel, was confronted with that fact, and his response was (and I'm paraphrasing) "well, obviously I wouldn't have promoted it if I knew what he was making, I've only watched one video." He wanted to promote smaller channels in a Top 10 list, something you can expect some research from. At least I would. At least go to the guy's channel and read a title or two. Either he knew what he was promoting and brushed it off when there was backlash, or he's genuinely just that lazy.

He apologizes for putting "death to all jews" on a sign, but puts nazi imagery (even doing a nazi salute and bowing over a swastika while the Nazi Party anthem plays as a "summoning ritual") as some sort of comment on how silly it is that anyone would think he's a nazi. In my opinion joking about nazism and anti-semitism in this fashion is kind of awful on its own. And apparently he recently, suddenly, completely unexpectedly after some horrific events says "nazi jokes aren't that funny anymore". Almost as if he realizes he can't get away with this kinda stuff much longer when his name is entangled with the likes of islamophobes and white supremacists.

 

I just don't think that he deserves such heavy backlash on a constant basis, and I think that a lot of his fans feel that way and are more inclined to rush and defend him. I said this in my post above, but all of the hate towards is the same thing, rehashed over and over again. I'm not sure what people want him to do. Apologize? He's done that. Delete the videos? Yep. Explain that he didn't know and that he's going to change? Yeah (and he has, since the Nazi thing and the n-word stuff). I believe his last "controversy" was two years ago (roughly?) and I genuinely don't understand what he could do beyond what he's done. The tea on him is extremely cold at this point.

The reason why I get a little annoyed is because I myself came from a background that was truly, wholeheartedly, a hate group. In my opinion, PDP doesn't embody the elements of someone who supports Nazism or condones anti-Semitism (if he was TRULY an anti-Semite, he wouldn't have had Ben Shapiro on his YouTube channel, period).

Bottom line is that everyone here is free to like him, hate him, or feel neutral, but in my opinion, the last thing he did that warranted legitimate criticism was when he said the n-word a few years back, along with the Fiverr stuff. Accidentally promoting an alt-right Youtube channel (out of the 30 small channels he tried to give a platform to), deleting it from his video, and apologizing for it isn't really something that constitutes as being hateful and racist, in my opinion. It seems extremely trivial. There are many people on the internet who should be held accountable and criticized for racism that is legitimately harmful and awful, and I think at this point people are just putting PDP under a microscope, which imho is a waste of energy.

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I just don't think that he deserves such heavy backlash on a constant basis, and I think that a lot of his fans feel that way and are more inclined to rush and defend him. I said this in my post above, but all of the hate towards is the same thing, rehashed over and over again. I'm not sure what people want him to do. Apologize? He's done that. Delete the videos? Yep. Explain that he didn't know and that he's going to change? Yeah (and he has, since the Nazi thing and the n-word stuff). I believe his last "controversy" was two years ago (roughly?) and I genuinely don't understand what he could do beyond what he's done. The tea on him is extremely cold at this point.

The reason why I get a little annoyed is because I myself came from a background that was truly, wholeheartedly, a hate group. In my opinion, PDP doesn't embody the elements of someone who supports Nazism or condones anti-Semitism (if he was TRULY an anti-Semite, he wouldn't have had Ben Shapiro on his YouTube channel, period).

Bottom line is that everyone here is free to like him, hate him, or feel neutral, but in my opinion, the last thing he did that warranted legitimate criticism was when he said the n-word a few years back, along with the Fiverr stuff. Accidentally promoting an alt-right Youtube channel (out of the 30 small channels he tried to give a platform to), deleting it from his video, and apologizing for it isn't really something that constitutes as being hateful and racist, in my opinion. It seems extremely trivial. There are many people on the internet who should be held accountable and criticized for racism that is legitimately harmful and awful, and I think at this point people are just putting PDP under a microscope, which imho is a waste of energy.

 

That's fair, honestly. I don't think he needs to apologize or delete anything. Personally I would respect him a lot more if instead of saying it's all jokes and satire, and suddenly unfollowing white supremacists and islamophobes when Christchurch happened, he spoke out against it in a serious way. He doesn't need to defend himself, but I feel that if you keep getting associated with nazis and white supremacists, it's high time to distance yourself from them, rather than say people are stupid for thinking he's a nazi and then making light of the harms of nazism.

Having a working relationship with a jewish person doesn't absolve you of anti-semitic BS "jokes". That's like saying, "my friend is black, so I can't be racist". Also, associating with Ben Shapiro is generally not a good thing, imo? I don't know much of their association, but Shapiro is an outspoken transphobe and islamophobe. He was also noted as someone whose content the Christchurch shooter was allegedly radicalized by. Don't need to be an anti-semite to be a questionable figure. Though the fact that he defended Steve Bannon (co-founder of Breitbart), who's said some seriously anti-semitic things, is a bit dodgy.

Until PDP actually honestly comes out against nazism and the white supremacists he attracts, he's not gonna be off the hook for anything, no matter how much he says he's sorry for the things he does that keeps white supremacists coming  back to his videos and thinking he's a great guy.

Edited by SimpleDimples
edited for clarity
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It's sad he still has to address the rumors and libel about him somehow secretly being a Nazi or something, but for those who keep saying he needs to acknowledge what's right and wrong, here you go. If it wasn't obvious enough that being racist isn't ok, he also directly mentions that in this video, although it shouldn't even be necessary since he's never actually done anything to suggest white supremacy but ok. Guilty til proven innocent I guess these days. Are people happy now?

And we know the journalists who published articles making false claims against him are held to literally no standard and won't apologize for doing something that's actually wrong; it's just the people they write about who have to defend themselves against false claims.

Edited by disappointedwitch
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Sorry but how is Jordan Peterson racist? I've listened to his interviews and some lectures before and he just doesn't believe that censoring "hate speech" is the way to change society, but rather having conversations. Not to mention using science to back up your arguments, which many people are unable to do these days. Jordan Peterson is an intellectual, and Felix reading his material doesn't mean he has "racist views" for wanting a different perspective than what's commonplace online these days.

 

Sorry, I didn't want to say that Jordan Peterson is racist, but to quote Wikipedia:

"He places classical liberals in the first type, and places so-called social justice warriors, who he says "weaponize compassion", in the second."

"Peterson has argued that there is an ongoing "crisis of masculinity" and "backlash against masculinity" where the "masculine spirit is under assault"."

"Peterson doubts the scientific consensus on climate change."

These are all views which are mostly shared by a vast majority of the "alt right" and if you recommend the works of someone who's views are close to a certain group of people, this group of people will feel acknowledged and vindicated and you're gonna attract even more people from this group, if you intend to or not. This effect is being affirmed by his previous "oopsies" (like antisemitic jokes) and this group might even take this recommendation as a dog whistle.

When I mentioned racist views, I was rather referring to the other people he has previously been following on Twitter and who have been mentioned in previous posts already.

Edited by Kumanosuke
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I will never understand the internet phenomenon that has a man say on camera "fuck racists and fuck white supremacists" yet still gets labeled as a racist and white supremacists. 

I'm not even going to get into it over the ethics of his jokes. but I do believe you can say that someone's jokes are tone-deaf and racist WITHOUT calling the person who made the jokes, themselves, racist. Jumping to extremes and moving the goal post so frequently is exactly why no one takes the PC crowd fucking seriously. and it makes people like me explicitly annoyed that I have to defend people like PewDiePie. 

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Sorry, I didn't want to say that Jordan Peterson is racist, but to quote Wikipedia:

"He places classical liberals in the first type, and places so-called social justice warriors, who he says "weaponize compassion", in the second."

"Peterson has argued that there is an ongoing "crisis of masculinity" and "backlash against masculinity" where the "masculine spirit is under assault"."

"Peterson doubts the scientific consensus on climate change."

These are all views which are mostly shared by a vast majority of the "alt right" and if you recommend the works of someone who's views are close to a certain group of people, this group of people will feel acknowledged and vindicated and you're gonna attract even more people from this group, if you intend to or not. This effect is being affirmed by his previous "oopsies" (like antisemitic jokes) and this group might even take this recommendation as a dog whistle.

When I mentioned racist views, I was rather referring to the other people he has previously been following on Twitter and who have been mentioned in previous posts already.

I get what you mean, in the sense that having a certain viewpoint may attract people who's views are basically the extreme version of what you believe in, but that can also go for every political/moral stance, not just center/right-leaning. You can be someone who's very far left, but that doesn't mean that you necessarily share the same views as Hitler, who being socialist, would be left in some aspects, Chairman Mao, also left, or the Democratic Party during the Civil War which was pro-slavery at the time. Or how about religion? I don't expect every muslim to be a die-hard extremist, just because the Q'ran itself is also used by people who want islamic laws implemented into every aspect of society. It seems to me that people should be able to tell from what a person says and does overall, rather than just looking at isolated incidents, to be able to figure out for themselves what kind of person they are. I just think people should use a little more critical thinking than hearing a viewpoint that isn't left and automatically think "they're far right".

Edited by disappointedwitch
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Posted (edited)

It's sad he still has to address the rumors and libel about him somehow secretly being a Nazi or something, but for those who keep saying he needs to acknowledge what's right and wrong, here you go. If it wasn't obvious enough that being racist isn't ok, he also directly mentions that in this video, although it shouldn't even be necessary since he's never actually done anything to suggest white supremacy but ok. Guilty til proven innocent I guess these days. Are people happy now?

The point for me at this point is that he keeps going on and on and on about it, it's like he's using it for views. He addressed it a hundred times already. I'm sure there are people like what you're talking about, but I'm guessing most people critical of him just want him to shut up about it and stop using it for content for the past half a year. You apologize once and then you move on, not keep bringing it up. 

That's the issue for me for a long time. He's coming on portraying himself as some sort of long-suffering jesus on a cross, that's just gaining him more viewing by us listening to this shit for the twentieth time. Yes the articles made about him are inaccurate and nonsense - who the fuck cares? He already addressed it, his side of it is out there many times. Every week some article out there somewhere is going to write shit about him, especially if he's giving them publicity by featuring them in his videos, it's like free advertising for them.  

As further proof that he is intentionally continuing this "saga" look at how he called all Indians "poo poo heads" in his music video - something that was a little crude and people are right to comment on how they find it questionable - a perfectly VALID and LEGITIMATE reaction to having your entire nation being called "poo poo heads", and suddenly in his video yesterday he starts attacking them for "omg how DARE you be offended that I called your entire country poo poo heads, I was just being sarcastic". He even had a clip of him coming up with the lyric with one of his editors all lined up ready to go because he knew it was coming. It's kind of like the the mother with cancer joke... there are some things you can't joke about. 

He is capitalizing on the anti-SJW sentiment. He knows a lot of if not most people are uncomfortable with all the modern SJWism in society so wants to appear as a torch-bearer for those people, and increasing his appearance as a demi-god to them. All the while giving him more content and getting to talk about himself more. Even if he's not consciously saying to himself this is how he is getting views, he is feeling out how he is going to get the attention and the drama so inclined to keep doing this. The top youtubers are like views-machines cause they wouldn't be in their position at the top of the world if they weren't. 

And we know the journalists who published articles making false claims against him are held to literally no standard and won't apologize for doing something that's actually wrong; it's just the people they write about who have to defend themselves against false claims.

 

If we know they have no standard then why does PDP continually feel the need to bring it up? This is just obviously going to make them come back stronger again with more criticism. If someone on a site like PULL started talking crap about a personality, are they seriously going to go out of their way to feature them in a video and do you think that would get people here to NOT post about them, if they kept responding back every time? Obviously it's not exactly the same thing, but it's the same sort of idea still. 

Edited by Puyo_Puyo
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even if Felix himself isn't a nazi him pandering to an audience of edgelords means he's still invited some cringeworthy sentiments into his video, and even if he later acknowledges them as wrong, I can't really say he's sincere about it, he's doing it because he was called out.

There was a well produced video recently called the "pewdiepipeline" from someone on leftytube that explains why edgy content can lead to extremism, and that people like Felix even pandering to edgelord 4channers can be harmful because he's doing it whatsoever and some of his fans may interpret his edgy jokes as being real. I feel like he's capitalizing on his audience of edgelord teen to twentysome boys and actual adult extremists for money and that doesn't sit well with me.

believe me, I was subbed to the guy back when he had floppy hair and played fucking happy wheels. I don't want to hate him, while I did outgrow his content, I used to like some of what he did, and him and other LP'ers at the time got me to appreciate games and lifted me up during a time of my life when I was very distraught... but everything he's done in the past few years has really painted him in a bad light and I think it's irreparable, he's pandering to his audience and I'm 100% sure he knows it. He pulls stunts like unfollowing everyone on Twitter for attention and that's precisely what it gets him. Even if he isn't a nazi he knows there are nazis in his audience and he doesn't denounce, acknowledge, or even poke fun at them out of fear of losing them as audience members, and I don't like that he avoids discussing that his fandom is an issue. 

Hes not the only one guilty of this (cough cough), he is the most famous person guilty of this at the present time, though. Most people who have a very bad fandom won't denounce them out of fear of losing them. The pewdiepipeline video pointed out that one of the few content creators who was willing to address the more extreme members of their fandom was TomSka. Few other people have done it. When you're as much of an online personality as Felix is now, though, I'd say it's less about you and more about damage controlling your audience. I doubt his entire audience is composed of nazis, but many of them are impressionable kids who could be misled into extremist ideologies precisely because Felix has nazis in his fandom that he won't try and drive out like the rats they are. 

Edited by lowblow
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Sorry, I didn't want to say that Jordan Peterson is racist, but to quote Wikipedia:

"He places classical liberals in the first type, and places so-called social justice warriors, who he says "weaponize compassion", in the second."

"Peterson has argued that there is an ongoing "crisis of masculinity" and "backlash against masculinity" where the "masculine spirit is under assault"."

"Peterson doubts the scientific consensus on climate change."

These are all views which are mostly shared by a vast majority of the "alt right" and if you recommend the works of someone who's views are close to a certain group of people, this group of people will feel acknowledged and vindicated and you're gonna attract even more people from this group, if you intend to or not. This effect is being affirmed by his previous "oopsies" (like antisemitic jokes) and this group might even take this recommendation as a dog whistle.

When I mentioned racist views, I was rather referring to the other people he has previously been following on Twitter and who have been mentioned in previous posts already.

 

Please don't source from Wikipedia. They taught people that in high school. 

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Please don't source from Wikipedia. They taught people that in high school. 

 

Why wouldn't I? The quotes have legit sources. I was just on my phone and to lazy to copy and paste every single link. I was just providing examples for his views. 

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That's fair, honestly. I don't think he needs to apologize or delete anything. Personally I would respect him a lot more if instead of saying it's all jokes and satire, and suddenly unfollowing white supremacists and islamophobes when Christchurch happened, he spoke out against it in a serious way.

 

He DID spoke against it in a serious way tho. And he had to unfollow everyone because all his followers were receiving death threats only because PDP was following them, it wasn't for hiding anything. Yet people kept spreading all the list of who he was following before.

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even if Felix himself isn't a nazi him pandering to an audience of edgelords means he's still invited some cringeworthy sentiments into his video, and even if he later acknowledges them as wrong, I can't really say he's sincere about it, he's doing it because he was called out.

There was a well produced video recently called the "pewdiepipeline" from someone on leftytube that explains why edgy content can lead to extremism, and that people like Felix even pandering to edgelord 4channers can be harmful because he's doing it whatsoever and some of his fans may interpret his edgy jokes as being real. I feel like he's capitalizing on his audience of edgelord teen to twentysome boys and actual adult extremists for money and that doesn't sit well with me.

believe me, I was subbed to the guy back when he had floppy hair and played fucking happy wheels. I don't want to hate him, while I did outgrow his content, I used to like some of what he did, and him and other LP'ers at the time got me to appreciate games and lifted me up during a time of my life when I was very distraught... but everything he's done in the past few years has really painted him in a bad light and I think it's irreparable, he's pandering to his audience and I'm 100% sure he knows it. He pulls stunts like unfollowing everyone on Twitter for attention and that's precisely what it gets him. Even if he isn't a nazi he knows there are nazis in his audience and he doesn't denounce, acknowledge, or even poke fun at them out of fear of losing them as audience members, and I don't like that he avoids discussing that his fandom is an issue. 

Hes not the only one guilty of this (cough cough), he is the most famous person guilty of this at the present time, though. Most people who have a very bad fandom won't denounce them out of fear of losing them. The pewdiepipeline video pointed out that one of the few content creators who was willing to address the more extreme members of their fandom was TomSka. Few other people have done it. When you're as much of an online personality as Felix is now, though, I'd say it's less about you and more about damage controlling your audience. I doubt his entire audience is composed of nazis, but many of them are impressionable kids who could be misled into extremist ideologies precisely because Felix has nazis in his fandom that he won't try and drive out like the rats they are. 

 

The pewdipipeline was also made by a communist youtuber.

The mirror image of a white supremacist. 

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The pewdipipeline was also made by a communist youtuber.

The mirror image of a white supremacist. 

 

pewdiepipeline video maker referred to himself as an anarchist if you actually watched the fucking video, anarchism and communism aren't the same shit. I don't sympathize with any of those ideologies but if it's a video making good points. he even self acknowledges that people aren't going to like him for making the video. Doesn't sound like you've watched the actual thing. There are two parts. Go watch the second assuming you even finished the first.

and even if anarchism can be edgy and it's not an ideology I identify with, pewdiepipeline uploader makes some good points - I dont always agree with every single thing leftytube says, but they do a better job at calling out alt right BS than many spineless "skeptic" youtubers or fringe fake"leftist" losers like Sargon who aren't actually leftists who will always sympathize with cases of alt right lunatics who don't deserve their sympathy or time of day, and they fucking shouldn't give lip service to the alt right if they're actual liberals who claim not to stand for nazi bs. I'm not even that far left but fucking christ leftytube and destiny are basically all I can stand at this point when it comes to political commentators on the site. I think destiny has referred to himself as a liberal but he doesn't have the prototypical leftytube content warning bs in his videos and other things make him seem more slight left without being 100% neutral on bs. anyway, I don't think people should remain neutral/impartial when it comes to obvious nazis, like that E;R guy, and it was rightful to call Felix out on featuring E;R. And Felix is honestly part of that little "fringe" sector of "apathetic hahahahaha we're so edgy and pandering to our edgy audience" memelords whose pandering has proven to be unintentionally harmful whether he means it or not. Like I said he's not the only one but he is the biggest one involved. I'm literally regurgitating what I said before.

anyway tl;dr, no, the guy who uploaded pewdiepipeline isn't a communist or even a socialist, he identified as an anarchist. socialism, communism, and anarchism are not the same ideologies, there are such thing as "anarcho capitalists", it's not all socialists/communists. totally irrelevant, he brings up his ideology in video 2 but it really doesn't take away from the power of his words and what he's trying to say, and I think people across ideologies that aren't extreme ones or who actually open their ears would realize the point that he is trying to make. like I said I'm not in 100% agreement with socialism/communism/anarchist but I'd rather talk to a pleasant socialist/communist/anarchist than a fucking far right extremist or far right extremist sympathizer who's unpleasant, if you really need to know.

Edited by lowblow
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