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686 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Pewdiepie has, in my opinion, no fault in this. I read a bit of the guys manifesto and none of what he has said coincides with Pewdiepies beliefs or anything that he has said recently (I'm only a casual viewer so I can't be sure about that) Honestly, I didn't start liking his channel until he started his 'edgy' humour it was for me something refreshing. There's always gonna be someone fucked up in every large youtubers subscriber base, it's inevitable with 89 million. I personally don't think its toxic, even Pewdiepie has, in my opinion, no fault in this. I read a bit of the guys manifesto and none of what he has said coincides with Pewdiepies beliefs or anything that he has said recently (I'm only a casual viewer so I can't be sure about that) Honestly, I didn't start liking his channel until he started his 'edgy' humour it was for me something refreshing. There's always gonna be someone fucked up in every large youtubers subscriber base, it's inevitable with 89 million. 

Someone mentioned him associating with the 'alt-right' and 'Nazis' by talking to people like Ben Shapiro and Paul Joseph Watson. I'm shocked that people actually consider them that. Especially Ben Shapiro, I can't say that I agree with all of his viewpoints but they're all logical. He isn't out there purposely trying to cause hate and suffering, you can tell he genuinely cares about his topics. Obviously, the media has influenced a lot of view points. I think its good that people are being encouraged to view the other side of the argument instead of being fixated on one side. The shooter in his manifesto even said depending on the definition he could be considered left wing or right wing, he even goes on a whole rant about conservatism, being evil (which both Ben Shapiro and Paul Joseph Watson are)

 

Edited by BloopGrass
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People in this thread are very passionately defending a mediocre youtuber from charges that aren't being thrown in said thread which is very entertaining to me

Pewdiepie has, in my opinion, no fault in this. I read a bit of the guys manifesto and none of what he has said coincides with Pewdiepies beliefs or anything that he has said recently (I'm only a casual viewer so I can't be sure about that) Honestly, I didn't start liking his channel until he started his 'edgy' humour it was for me something refreshing. There's always gonna be someone fucked up in every large youtubers subscriber base, it's inevitable with 89 million. I personally don't think its toxic, even Pewdiepie has, in my opinion, no fault in this. I read a bit of the guys manifesto and none of what he has said coincides with Pewdiepies beliefs or anything that he has said recently (I'm only a casual viewer so I can't be sure about that) Honestly, I didn't start liking his channel until he started his 'edgy' humour it was for me something refreshing. There's always gonna be someone fucked up in every large youtubers subscriber base, it's inevitable with 89 million. 

Someone mentioned him associating with the 'alt-right' and 'Nazis' by talking to people like Ben Shapiro and Paul Joseph Watson. I'm shocked that people actually consider them that. Especially Ben Shapiro, I can't say that I agree with all of his viewpoints but they're all logical. He isn't out there purposely trying to cause hate and suffering, you can tell he genuinely cares about his topics. Obviously, the media has influenced a lot of view points. I think its good that people are being encouraged to view the other side of the argument instead of being fixated on one side. The shooter in his manifesto even said depending on the definition he could be considered left wing or right wing, he even goes on a whole rant about conservatism, being evil (which both Ben Shapiro and Paul Joseph Watson are)

 

 

Ben Shapiro is well known as an alt right conspiracist literally all you have to do is google it

He has called muslim men "a disease" and has said it is fine to murder afghan citizens because they "like to blow things up". that's logical to you? el oh el...

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I would like to share my condolences for the victims of the Christchurch shootings. It's utterly horrible and disgusting to see such an evil person uses Pewdiepie's name just to get the media's attention and to boast his plan of attack. 

I would wish for anyone to stay strong, not just for Felix but also for the families and friends of the victims of this massacre.

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People in this thread are very passionately defending a mediocre youtuber from charges that aren't being thrown in said thread which is very entertaining to me

Ben Shapiro is well known as an alt right conspiracist literally all you have to do is google it

He has called muslim men "a disease" and has said it is fine to murder afghan citizens because they "like to blow things up". that's logical to you? el oh el...

 

To be honest, when I was younger I didn't like PewdiePie and thought he was trash, it wasn't until he changed his content that I saw a different side. I like the fact he doesn't censor his thoughts and views, in order  to conform to the expected norms. I am passionate about it cause the only was out of this 'toxicity' would be for him to censor himself, which is absolutely the one thing that should be avoided. 

I can't personally say that I recall him calling muslim men a disease or him saying its fine to murder to afghan citizens. You said to google it but you seem to forget that the media in this time period are very biased and will jump at the chance to call anyone a racist, a nazi, a homphobe. They use these labels laxly so I really can't take them seriously and some articles even say that Shapiro condones antisemitism (very reliable, right?)

But from my viewings of Ben Shapiro is a very logical man and doesn't just throw around statements, he provides statistics so I do doubt your claims. (I also did say in my original post that I don't agree with everything he says) I also don't understand how he's spreading conspiracy's. 

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Posted (edited)

The lack of reading comprehension here is astounding. No one said PewDiePie is responsible, but he is guilty of encouraging a toxic environment within his fandom where it'd be real easy for people to become radicalised, and that is a problem. You can't be friends with/support voices that talk about the conspiracy of spreading Islam in Western nations, and then be surprised that someone who claims to be a fan also holds that ideology.

PewDiePie really needs to look at who he associates with, their ideologies, their messages, and really consider how that affects his fandom too because promoting those people is opening a door.

 

"He isn't guilty, BUT..." Is what I'm pointing fingers at. Whether pewdiepie does his jokes or not has NOTHING to do with terrorism. It's like saying the guys that got killed at Charlie Hebdo shouldn't have died, BUT they did offensive jokes and it's no wonder. And that they should avoid that. It's the SAME mentality, and it's a mentality we HAVE to forbid: because it gives reason to terrorism. I'll repeat myself, but as governments say, changing our daily way of life that is in no way harmful because of the fear of terrorism, is feeding terrorism.There is no "but". Edgy jokes are just edgy jokes, and the moment you start seeing them as a threat is the moment we start feeding into fear.There are terrorists, apologists, and those that die in between. 

Edit: My point is, instead of saying "It's not pewdiepie's fault, but he should avoid offensive jokes because it might radicalise people (not true btw)" we have to make the one who made those murders bear the full responsibility. Radicalisation is when someone ENCOURAGES you to kill people. He didn't do that, so he is in no way, whatsoever, responsible to how his audience responds to his content. 

Edited by angxlicfairy
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"He isn't guilty, BUT..." Is what I'm pointing fingers at. Whether pewdiepie does his jokes or not has NOTHING to do with terrorism. It's like saying the guys that got killed at Charlie Hebdo shouldn't have died, BUT they did offensive jokes and it's no wonder. It's the SAME mentality, and it's a mentality we HAVE to forbid. There is no "but". There are terrorists, apologists, and those that die in between. 

 

Again, missing the point. The point is not that PewDiePie is responsible for this man's actions (because he isn't), the point is that he has contributed to creating and maintaining a space on the internet where radicalisation of this ideology or similar becomes easier. That's it.

To be honest, when I was younger I didn't like PewdiePie and thought he was trash, it wasn't until he changed his content that I saw a different side. I like the fact he doesn't censor his thoughts and views, in order  to conform to the expected norms. I am passionate about it cause the only was out of this 'toxicity' would be for him to censor himself, which is absolutely the one thing that should be avoided. 

I can't personally say that I recall him calling muslim men a disease or him saying its fine to murder to afghan citizens. You said to google it but you seem to forget that the media in this time period are very biased and will jump at the chance to call anyone a racist, a nazi, a homphobe. They use these labels laxly so I really can't take them seriously and some articles even say that Shapiro condones antisemitism (very reliable, right?)

But from my viewings of Ben Shapiro is a very logical man and doesn't just throw around statements, he provides statistics so I do doubt your claims. (I also did say in my original post that I don't agree with everything he says) I also don't understand how he's spreading conspiracy's. 

 

"Israelis like to build. Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage. This is not a difficult issue. #settlementsrock"

"The Radical Evil Of The Palestinian Arab Population" By Ben Shapiro

"the Palestinian Arab population is rotten to the core"

"But in the end, the blame must lie with the Palestinian Arabs themselves. They have accepted their role with relish. They are as responsible for their government's longstanding evil as the Germans were for the Nazis'."

"an entire population [is] corrupted by bloodthirsty anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism,"

"Collective choices require collective treatment."

https://www.facebook.com/officialbenshapiro/posts/985359574834805?sfnsw=cl

Promoted this article which called the Muslim presence in Europe a "disease", and declared Muslim men to be "uncivlized".

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Posted (edited)

Again, missing the point. The point is not that PewDiePie is responsible for this man's actions (because he isn't), the point is that he has contributed to creating and maintaining a space on the internet where radicalisation of this ideology or similar becomes easier. That's it.

 

Then what do you suggest be done about this?

"Israelis like to build. Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage. This is not a difficult issue. #settlementsrock"

"The Radical Evil Of The Palestinian Arab Population" By Ben Shapiro

"the Palestinian Arab population is rotten to the core"

"But in the end, the blame must lie with the Palestinian Arabs themselves. They have accepted their role with relish. They are as responsible for their government's longstanding evil as the Germans were for the Nazis'."

"an entire population [is] corrupted by bloodthirsty anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism,"

"Collective choices require collective treatment."

https://www.facebook.com/officialbenshapiro/posts/985359574834805?sfnsw=cl

Promoted this article which called the Muslim presence in Europe a "disease", and declared Muslim men to be "uncivlized".

 

First 2 articles hes apologised for and has admitted they were wrong. He has said his views have changed since then, if you did a little more research you would've seen him say this many times.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/33362/so-heres-giant-list-all-dumb-stuff-ive-ever-done-ben-shapiro

^he includes those in the link above.

The last article, discussed about the influx of Muslim immigrants, they did reference it to a disease but also made other points of the reasons why the article believed it. The article was mainly to highlight the reasons why to decrease the immigration of Muslims which is what I'm assuming Shapiro was stating.

Edited by BloopGrass
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Posted

The argument is getting way out of hand here. I think we can all agree on that PDP is not responsible nor has he encouraged this shit.

You can have whatever opinions you want on his humour and his fanbase, but I can say as someone who’s been to his subreddit many times that the community is far from being any alt-right. You guys keep mentioning Shapiro as some form of evidence, when everyone knows that guy is a joke and no one takes him seriously.

The shooter was motivated by 4chan and 8chan. That’s where he linked his stream and everything. He is using memes on purpose to make the media angry. Hate to say this but it’s disappointing to see you guys are falling for exactly what the shooter wanted.

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Posted (edited)

"He isn't guilty, BUT..." Is what I'm pointing fingers at. Whether pewdiepie does his jokes or not has NOTHING to do with terrorism. It's like saying the guys that got killed at Charlie Hebdo shouldn't have died, BUT they did offensive jokes and it's no wonder. And that they should avoid that. It's the SAME mentality, and it's a mentality we HAVE to forbid: because it gives reason to terrorism. I'll repeat myself, but as governments say, changing our daily way of life that is in no way harmful because of the fear of terrorism, is feeding terrorism.There is no "but". Edgy jokes are just edgy jokes, and the moment you start seeing them as a threat is the moment we start feeding into fear.There are terrorists, apologists, and those that die in between. 

Edit: My point is, instead of saying "It's not pewdiepie's fault, but he should avoid offensive jokes because it might radicalise people (not true btw)" we have to make the one who made those murders bear the full responsibility. Radicalisation is when someone ENCOURAGES you to kill people. He didn't do that, so he is in no way, whatsoever, responsible to how his audience responds to his content. 

 

I didn't mention offensive jokes? Nor did I say PewDiePie himself was radicalising anyone? I said, and please really read this, that his fandom/community online has become a place where radicalisation can be made easier; this is due to the general apathy or downright mocking I've seen from his fans/supporters towards social issues and/or people who care about them. The internet, the attitudes encouraged... they do not exist in a vacuum, it does affect peoples minds and mentalities; just like 'in real life', when you're in a certain environment for a period of time, it slowly and sometimes without realising, affects your view of certain things.

Please tell me where I said PewDiePie's offensive jokes are radicalising people, I never did.

Then what do you suggest be done about this?

 

Not associating with far-right or alt-right people and therefore normalising them/their rhetoric seems like a good start.

Edited by anastacia
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Not associating with far-right or alt-right people and therefore normalising them/their rhetoric seems like a good start.

 

That's pretty vague. The definition of the alt-right and far-right is also pretty vague to begin with as well. Where does one draw the line for extremism? It depends on the person. You may consider someone who i do not consider alt-right as alt-right and vice versa(what it seems to me is that you do not want him to associate with anyone who is right wing at all). I do however agree that PDP shouldn't associate with politics IN GENERAL(which he does do a good job at). Be it left or right. Whenever anyone does it, especially celebrities, it alienates a part of their audience. I personally don't think hes ever normalised any alt-right behaviour.

We disagree but that's okay cause at the end of the day I hope you'll respect my opinions even if they differ from yours. I'm sure I've made it clear I don't agree with your opinions but I've made sure instead of down-voting you, I talked to you. You did give me an insight into another point of view even if I still don't agree with it. I hope I've done the same for you.

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Why are people saying "you're doing what the shooter wanted" when people are commenting on PewDiePie's name being used by the terrorist? :alpacaconfused:

My knee-jerk reaction was something along the lines of who cares what the hell the shooter wanted. People were murdered. A famous YouTuber's name got dragged along. They will comment. What's the problem there? 

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People in this thread are very passionately defending a mediocre youtuber from charges that aren't being thrown in said thread which is very entertaining to me

Ben Shapiro is well known as an alt right conspiracist literally all you have to do is google it

He has called muslim men "a disease" and has said it is fine to murder afghan citizens because they "like to blow things up". that's logical to you? el oh el...

 

Ben Shapiro is a jew and PJW is mocked heavily in alt right circles. 

Neither of these are real alt right people.

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The fact that you are even arguing about this is literally proof that the shooter was right and you are doing what he wants . He wants us to talk about this instead of thinking of the victims . By arguing, we are taking the focus on what it should be, finding ways to offer support, and putting it on something wrong, which is discussing his final cry for attention.  WE SHOULD ALL STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS .

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From what I take of this, the media love to jump on YouTubers to make headlines and it's sad they're doing it in this case because people have lost their lives and its a sad case from every aspect. 

Now Im not saying it is Pewdiepies fault because at the end of the day people are aware of his kind of content now (even if it's not my cup of tea). And this kind of humour is for certain people. However it's got to a point now where Felix must be aware that he is in a position where his kind of humour is going to attract the wrong people. He's already been called a Nazi supporter, a racist and now he's being blamed for being responsible for this. Now again I'm not saying he is in the wrong in this case but he does need to be very careful with this kind of content. Other channels can get away with it but he is one of the only YouTubers that has been in headlines in mainstream media so he has a lot more pressure on his shoulders. 

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Posted (edited)

Ben Shapiro is a hardcore neo con zionist, not alt right. The alt-right believes in shit like Jews ruling the world and conspiring to achieve white genocide, so even if they and Shapiro have some overlapping views, the majority of them dislike him. That doesn't mean both of them aren't shit, but they are different flavors of shit that should not be conflated.

The fact that you are even arguing about this is literally proof that the shooter was right and you are doing what he wants . He wants us to talk about this instead of thinking of the victims . By arguing, we are taking the focus on what it should be, finding ways to offer support, and putting it on something wrong, which is discussing his final cry for attention.  WE SHOULD ALL STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS .

 

Seconded. Thinking he needs to be careful with his words is one thing, but focusing more on Pewdiepie than the victims, the shooter or even 8chan as I've seen some people do on social media is just stupid.

Edited by JunkFood
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