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Simply_Kenna/cozykitsune [Thread 5]


10343 posts in this topic

Posted

Does anyone know what project mckenna, venus, and cathycat are working on? ūü§Ē

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Ok guys, I've been away for a long time but her new video pissed me off so much I had to write about it. As I didn't see anyone complain about it i'm not sure many of you will agree with me but I had to talk about this. Cultural appropriation. We KNOW Kenna is used to it, she became the expert of C.A.

Remember when there's been some drama when she used the G-Word ? Well she's doing exactly the same with this "boho" phase. This term is a gentrification of "bohemian', which defines people that have been oppressed, killed, and basically no one cares about them or their rights, especially the "nomadic bohemians". I don't want to get political here but it pisses me off so much that some basic white chick is stealing from another culture to make it look cool and edgy. And of course it doesn't profit to the people but to a shady company we all know.

So what's the next phase ? Will she return to her i-wanna-look-asian phase ? A Native American phase ? A clown phase ? 

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Ok guys, I've been away for a long time but her new video pissed me off so much I had to write about it. As I didn't see anyone complain about it i'm not sure many of you will agree with me but I had to talk about this. Cultural appropriation. We KNOW Kenna is used to it, she became the expert of C.A.

Remember when there's been some drama when she used the G-Word ? Well she's doing exactly the same with this "boho" phase. This term is a gentrification of "bohemian', which defines people that have been oppressed, killed, and basically no one cares about them or their rights, especially the "nomadic bohemians". I don't want to get political here but it pisses me off so much that some basic white chick is stealing from another culture to make it look cool and edgy. And of course it doesn't profit to the people but to a shady company we all know.

 

That's a very fair point to raise and I had my suspicions but seeing as to how no one mentioned Boho, I didn't think much of it either. The problem is knowing that fine line between cultural appropriation and "edgy terms". Personally, I never knew the G word was a slur before reading it on PULL (excuse my ignorance).

Getting a little off topic here: I know Kenna can be very insensitive toward cultures but how do we differentiate between possible slurs? What other terms can be used to describe her current style?

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did no one talk  about the post with her drink and how she congratulated herself for using 4 packets of sugar and not 5

Capture.thumb.PNG.6d844836e99a65a3470738

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This is not true. Most people just don't know enough about gypsies, Romani, and the country of Bohemia to understand the cultural appropriation. To some it may not be as easily defined as other cultures that they are more familiar with or that have been better documented; for those reasons, it makes the culture harder to conceptualize. However that does not make it any less of a cultural appropriation.

bo¬∑he¬∑mi¬∑an¬† ¬†/bŇćňąhńďmńď…ôn/
mid 19th century: from French boh√©mien ‚ÄėGypsy‚Äô (because Gypsies were thought to come from Bohemia (now part of the Czech Republic), or because they perhaps entered the West through Bohemia).

Roma Women's Clothing
[Roma] Women are interested in fashion that shows their sense of "shame" and their status as guardians of purity for the family. Because of this role, women are expected to cover their legs at least to the mid-calf. Married women traditionally cover their head with a scarf and tie their long hair up or braid it. There is no shame associated with showing a low-cut neckline; in fact, it is rare to see a woman who does not wear low-cut tops. Women may wear modern western clothing when they do not want to be recognized as Roma. Some, for example, wear "Hopi" Indian dress to "pass" as American Indians. Even within these limitations, women have a great deal of leeway to adopt different styles:

Traditional Serbian or Russian Roma-homemade, long, pleated, light chiffon, sari-like skirt; tight lowcut blouse with V-neck showing cleavage; bra that acts as a pocketbook and place for cigarettes; hair put up in a chignon or bun; pocket handkerchief or larger style scarf on the head; flat shoes.

Eastern European Roma contemporary-flowered, bright calf-length skirt; short puffed-sleeved peasant blouse with gold coins around the neck; and scarf on head; barefoot or in flat shoes. 

Spanish Roma entertainment-flamenco dress that is calf-length; bright polka-dot material; sleeveless low-cut top.

Read more at https://fashion-history.lovetoknow.com/clothing-around-world/roma-gypsy-fashions#qxk0g0QydFavgs5B.99


"Bohemian" was originally a term with pejorative undertones given to Roma gypsies, commonly believed by the French to have originated in Bohemia, in central Europe.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12711181

"Bohemia was an Eastern European nation, the home to my Romany ancestors. It was their home, the safest they ever felt was in Bohemia, but of course, the Czech soldiers took it over. My great grandfather was stabbed in Town Square for being openly Romany, and loudly Bohemian." 
http://affinitymagazine.us/2017/02/03/an-open-letter-to-the-unbeknownst-racist/

"During the Holocaust, Romani people were among the target groups sought out by Nazis, and are to this day, still persecuted by many. To turn the lifestyles and histories of women of color into the latest fad is something that has seeped into our culture, but it is inexcusable to simply forget both the oppression that these women have faced and the pride they take in reclaiming their roots.Unfortunately, white people are not the only culprits when it comes to cultural appropriation. People of color do appropriate the cultures of other people of color, and that doesn’t make it any more acceptable than if a white person were to do so." 
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/appropriate-or-appropriative

 

 

Thank you for this post. I learn something new today. It would be very beneficial if you could copy-paste everything as a comment under Kenna's video. As @FrenchLavender said, if you look hard enough, anything is cultural appropriation. We live in an era of multi-culturalism. With the internet and social media, many elements of cultures may be seen and passed around without proper background information. For example, a person who has never been exposed to Chinese culture decided to purchase and wear a cheongsam with the mere thought of thinking it is beautiful. Most people may view it as a mere fashion statement. But if a Chinese says it is cultural appropriation, the situation will be viewed differently then.  

This is a very delicate situation so giving Kenna the benefit of the doubt that she may not know about the origins of bohemian, educate her on it with your post. If she responded inappropriately, then we can talk about that.  

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I'm looking forward for it to go down to 700,000, but I think it would take too long.

It's still going down...

dOlCzs4.jpg

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This is not true. Most people just don't know enough about gypsies, Romani, and the country of Bohemia to understand the cultural appropriation. To some it may not be as easily defined as other cultures that they are more familiar with or that have been better documented; for those reasons, it makes the culture harder to conceptualize. However that does not make it any less of a cultural appropriation.

bo¬∑he¬∑mi¬∑an¬† ¬†/bŇćňąhńďmńď…ôn/
mid 19th century: from French boh√©mien ‚ÄėGypsy‚Äô (because Gypsies were thought to come from Bohemia (now part of the Czech Republic), or because they perhaps entered the West through Bohemia).

Roma Women's Clothing
[Roma] Women are interested in fashion that shows their sense of "shame" and their status as guardians of purity for the family. Because of this role, women are expected to cover their legs at least to the mid-calf. Married women traditionally cover their head with a scarf and tie their long hair up or braid it. There is no shame associated with showing a low-cut neckline; in fact, it is rare to see a woman who does not wear low-cut tops. Women may wear modern western clothing when they do not want to be recognized as Roma. Some, for example, wear "Hopi" Indian dress to "pass" as American Indians. Even within these limitations, women have a great deal of leeway to adopt different styles:

Traditional Serbian or Russian Roma-homemade, long, pleated, light chiffon, sari-like skirt; tight lowcut blouse with V-neck showing cleavage; bra that acts as a pocketbook and place for cigarettes; hair put up in a chignon or bun; pocket handkerchief or larger style scarf on the head; flat shoes.

Eastern European Roma contemporary-flowered, bright calf-length skirt; short puffed-sleeved peasant blouse with gold coins around the neck; and scarf on head; barefoot or in flat shoes. 

Spanish Roma entertainment-flamenco dress that is calf-length; bright polka-dot material; sleeveless low-cut top.

Read more at https://fashion-history.lovetoknow.com/clothing-around-world/roma-gypsy-fashions#qxk0g0QydFavgs5B.99


"Bohemian" was originally a term with pejorative undertones given to Roma gypsies, commonly believed by the French to have originated in Bohemia, in central Europe.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12711181

"Bohemia was an Eastern European nation, the home to my Romany ancestors. It was their home, the safest they ever felt was in Bohemia, but of course, the Czech soldiers took it over. My great grandfather was stabbed in Town Square for being openly Romany, and loudly Bohemian." 
http://affinitymagazine.us/2017/02/03/an-open-letter-to-the-unbeknownst-racist/

"During the Holocaust, Romani people were among the target groups sought out by Nazis, and are to this day, still persecuted by many. To turn the lifestyles and histories of women of color into the latest fad is something that has seeped into our culture, but it is inexcusable to simply forget both the oppression that these women have faced and the pride they take in reclaiming their roots.Unfortunately, white people are not the only culprits when it comes to cultural appropriation. People of color do appropriate the cultures of other people of color, and that doesn’t make it any more acceptable than if a white person were to do so." 
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/appropriate-or-appropriative

 

 

Thank you so much for this !

 

In European culture, Bohemians are a little more well-known so I understand that other parts of the world don't know about that.

About Kenna, maybe she indeed doesn't know the meaning of this but it's what cultural appropriation is all about. Stealing from culture and people that are oppressed with no benefits for them, you see ? If you buy a traditional kimono in a shop in Kyoto, it benefits to Japanese culture and traditions. If you buy a cheap dress from a random shop and mimic a style without learning anything from this style and its origins, it's appropriation. As I said, I don't want to get political. But it's weird how everyone said it was cultural appropriation when it concerned Japanese people and Buddhism but when it comes to Bohemians, no one seems to see the problem.

I hope everyone can understand the difference and what is the problem here.

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 I still don't get what is Kenna doing that is cultural appropriation? 

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 I still don't get what is Kenna doing that is cultural appropriation? 

 

This fight will probably go on for several pages, so you'll have pleeeenty of time to mull over what she's doing. 

Essentially, Kenna is taking up a style ("boho chic") which borrows many elements from "bohemian" fashions that originated in Eastern Europe and the surrounding areas with the Romani people (a historically, and currently, oppressed group), among other groups. It was picked up by contemporaries in the 19th century, but popularized by nomadic hippies in the 1960s.

Whether you consider this appropriate really comes down to how removed something has to be from a culture to consider it appropriation (hippies appropriated "bohemian," hence it's pretty far removed from the source culture--and Kenna's idea of boho is mostly sundresses and low-cut, loose shirts, so not exactly an exact copy), and if the use of elements from a style is really appropriation if those items themselves are not significant in the forms of oppression or not culturally sacred (e.g. black people get directly attacked for their hair, or a sacred symbol only allowed to be worn by special people). Cultural appropriation itself is a pretty sticky subject, since there's no consensus on who can and cannot participate, how much, etc.

 

Even the article the main instigator of the conversation quoted mentioned Roma women wear Hopi dresses frequently. Appropriation is not delegated to one type of person.

It's not cut-and-dry, and as someone else mentioned, literally all aspects of anyone's culture have been somehow, at some time, borrowed or been modified by an outside group. You can say anything's appropriation with enough research.

 

Honestly, I wish people would take this to the DMs. No use fighting over this in a public forum when you've released enough information to let people form their own opinions. 

Edited by darlin
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You can tell how Kenna has been boring by the way this topic derails into an ocean of nitpicking lol. We are struggling to find something to talk about.

Even if the video was kinda better than the other ones, Boho guide in 2019? Not saying that she has to go with the flow and become an instagram baddie, I actually praise her to (somewhat) be true to herself (or one of her versions lol), but this is not what the majority of people want to watch. I know that it sucks, but when you are creating content, there’s always this issue between what you want to do and what people want to see. And in the end Youtube is all about numbers. If she wants to make a career out of YT, she has to stay up to date. Don’t change yourself to fit the current fashion, but give us your unique approach of a relevant topic/interest. It’s not that difficult for her, since all her fans are begging for japanese content. But she prefers to keep doing her aesthetic videos. Of course, it’s her choice and it’s fair, but don’t expect to make money and pretend it’s your only source of income 

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